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Herne Bay, England, CT6
United Kingdom

Community website for all things Herne Bay (Kent, UK). Covers: The Downs, Herne Bay Museum, Herne Bay Historical Records Society, Herne Bay Pier Trust, Herne Bay in Bloom, East Cliff Neighbourhood Panel, No Night Flights, Manston Airport, Save Hillborough, Kitewood, WEA, Local Plan and much, much more...

No Night Flights

Filtering by Category: Night flights

'Kiss of death' for town

HBM

The campaign to stop planes from Manston flying over Herne Bay at night is taking off. A working party is to be formed to see if the flight path can be switched to avoid the bay. City councillor Vince McMahan supports a call for a public meeting when the consultation is restarted. Campaigner Phil Rose of Beacon Hill told last Tuesday's meeting of the Bay city councillors:

"We know Herne Bay needs jobs. The proposal for night flights comes with the promise of hundreds of jobs. But we mustn't fall for it."

Mr Rose said noisier, older cargo planes that Manston wants to fly over Herne Bay are not allowed to fly into Gatwick at night because they are too noisy. He added:

"Cargo planes flying through the night over Herne Bay will do nothing to make our town an attractive place for visitors or residents and will bring us only noise and nuisance."

Herne Bay resident Sheila Chesney said she was very concerned night flights were being seen as a foregone conclusion by Canterbury and Thanet councils. She said they would be the "kiss of death" for the town.

Clipping: thisiskent


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Nostrildamus (D)

HBM

Infratil don’t want night flights... they just want the shoulder periods.

Please bear in mind: Infratil have grown into a billion dollar company as a result of being noticeably better at both strategy and risk assessment than most of the other major international players. This does of course mean that they are significantly better on both counts than TDC.

Air freight is carried (mostly) in the belly of large passenger aircraft flying into busy passenger airports. A small proportion of freight arrives in dedicated freight-only aircraft. Manston is the 5th largest airport in the UK for receiving the second type of freight. It's doing the best it can in what is essentially a niche market, but will need some kind of advantage or Unique Selling Point (USP) if it's going to be any better than 5th.

From the airport owner's point of view, day time flights are a breeze whereas night flights are a pain in the backside. Day time flights are effectively unrestricted. Night flights will only be permitted within the framework of whatever S106 agreement TDC can cobble together and make stick. A whole new suite of monitoring, record-keeping and accountability would be triggered by scheduled night flights. The quota count system being suggested immediately makes scheduled nights flights a finite resource and potential limitation on growth and success.

BUT. See that - it's a big but. There are the "shoulder periods" that Infratil have conjured up and woven into their preposterous proposal, which are explicitly excluded from the night flight tallying and monitoring. Flights in the "shoulder periods" don't count as night flights - it's just a longer (unrestricted) day.

Hurrah! Infratil already have blanket permission for late (or should that be "late") arrivals during the night. With the longer day and shorter night that the magical "shoulder periods" bring, the plausible spill-over at either end of the shortened night start to join up in the middle. All of a sudden, Manston becomes (almost) a 24 hour freight airport, which is exactly the kind of USP that they need to creep above 5th in the table of freight importers.

"Nostrildamus nose the future"


No Night Flights home page

Nostrildamus (F)

HBM

Infratil don’t want night flights... but TDC’s refusal would provide them with a handy cover story for leaving.

Please bear in mind: Infratil have grown into a billion dollar company as a result of being noticeably better at both strategy and risk assessment than most of the other major international players. This does of course mean that they are significantly better on both counts than TDC.

Infratil's shareholders are pleased with Infratil's ownership and management of Wellington Airport in New Zealand. Building on this success, Infratil made a carefully considered speculative punt, and started buying airports in Europe - Germany, Scotland and England. This turned out to be a mistake.

The least bad mistake was Lubeck Airport, north-east of Hamburg. Thanks to some quite frankly brilliant negotiating, Infratil had the right to sell the airport back to city of Lubeck after a fixed time period if they chose to do so. Time passed, the airport didn't succeed as they had hoped, so they sold it back to Lubeck at cost price, thereby exiting without too much loss or pain. Neat.

Prestwick Airport south-west of Glasgow has also failed to live up to expectations, but unlike Lubeck, there is nobody waiting in the wings who is contractually bound to buy it back off Infratil. Prestwick's vulnerability to the fluctuations in the air passenger market are reflected in the swingeing staff cuts imposed from time to time. Prestwick continues to make a significant negative contribution to the overall negative picture for what's left of Infratil Airports Europe.

Manston is definitely the worst of a bad bunch. Having cost millions, it has lost millions every year since. It has never made a profit. This contrasts sharply with Infratil's overall performance of 18% year on year return, and does not sit happily with their declared aim of achieving a 20% return for their investors. The local New Zealand financial analysts estimate that the European airports transalte into a 5% mark-down on Infratil's share price. This is not something that makes their shareholders happy - Infratil are under pressure.

Infratil need a lot of good news to start happening, and then keep happening, at Manston. They need to recover the purchase price and the subsequent losses (say £20m-£30m) and then start reliably raking in cash if Manston is to compare favourably with their other investments. Failing that, they cannot justify to their investors retaining Manston. The time is fast approaching when Infratil will have to bite the bullet. Selling Manston for a nominal £1 starts to look like an attractive alternative to losing millions a year. It is a fact of life that professional investors like Infratil have long since learnt to deal with: sometimes you just have to cut your losses and walk away.

Realistically, that time has already passed. Infratil's recognition and acceptance of the fact was signalled by the replacement of Matt Clarke (their hand-chosen representative on Planet Thanet) with Charles Buchanan (a PR and communications specialist, and experienced airport vendor) to clean up the remnants. Infratil can tell their shareholders that they've given it their best shot. The aviation industry has been through rocky times: wildly fluctuating fuel prices made business erratic; Icelandic ash clouds forced some customers into the welcoming arms of marine freight. It would be easy and convenient for Infratil to present an uncooperative or unwelcoming local regulatory framework as being the last straw. Bye!

"Nostrildamus nose the future"


No Night Flights home page

Policy on night-time flying needs more detailed review

HBM

Clipping: thisiskent

My decision to halt the consultation process with regard to the night-time flying policy application from Manston airport was not taken lightly, as I am aware that many people felt that debate about this sensitive issue was long overdue. This week's column gives me the opportunity to share my thinking on the matter. I have always believed that any night-time flying policy should be as specific as possible and that anyone reading it should be able to have a reasonable idea of what exactly that policy would mean in terms of how many planes would be moving at night, how noisy would they be and at what times would these occur.

The application used an annual quota count limit as its basis. This is an accepted method of limiting night-time flying, but I have always felt that it doesn't offer the ability, on its own, to predict how many night movements there might be. The airport's request for 1,995 annual quota count points was accompanied by a noise assessment report that suggested that by 2018, if the airport was on target to meet its masterplan predictions, on a "typical" night there would be three aircraft movements between 11.30pm and 6am.

Protesters were quick to point out that, if it were the least noisy planes involved, that there could be greatly increased numbers of aircraft movements. Given that frequency of disturbance is just as big an issue as the noise level of individual planes, it is perhaps reasonable that the policy should address the number of movements, as well as the quota count limit.

This view was supported by the independent review, commissioned by your council, of the noise assessment submitted by the airport. Further, it suggested that a lower quota count figure might still support the airport's business aspirations. In light of this, I felt Infratil, the airport owners, should be asked to review the detail of their application. They have agreed to do this and will submit a revised application shortly. I look forward to the resolution of the night-time issue and Manston becoming the thriving regional airport that will boost our local economy.

Cllr Bayford (I presume)


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Bureau Veritas request

HBM

The clever people at Bureau Veritas have peer reviewed BAP's technical noise report that accompanied Infratil's recent application. Even though it's apparently only in draft form, this provided TDC with the courage and ammunition to reject Infratil's bid.

At the recent Ramsgate Town Council meeting, Charles Buchanan said that he had not (yet) seen the BV report. Earlier that same day, the local press had been quoting figures from the BV report. As we know from previous experience with the BAP report, even early drafts turn out to have a very close resemblance to the finished report.

If any of you lovely people have a draft (or final copy) of the Bureau Veritas report, do feel free to send it in. We're bursting with curiosity, and it will help us prepare for the next round. Email it in to us and please indicate whether you DO or DON'T want us to publish it.


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Plans for night flights on hold

HBM

FREIGHT: Residents have expressed concerns over noise from planes using Manston airport

Clipping: thisiskent

A report carried out by an airport research company has raised concerns over possible noise from planes using Manston airport. The study, commissioned by Thanet council in response to an application for regular night flights from Manston, says even with restrictions on night time plane movements and a sound insulation scheme for properties "the predicted number of people exposed to significant night-time noise is not justified by the number of passengers and freight activity that are to benefit from the proposals".

The report by Bureau Veritas, said people in Ramsgate could be exposed to an average noise of 57db each hour across eight hours – equivalent to having a television on loudly. Bureau Veritas has recommended that this noise level be reduced. Thanet council, which has to consider the request from Manston, asked its owners, Infratil, to provide more detail on how many planes could be flying at night and what types of craft they could be.

Mr Bayford said it is unlikely that the public consultation will start before Christmas:

"The council remains supportive of the airport and maximising the employment opportunities it can create and sustain, but this cannot be at any price for local residents. We need to balance the economic benefits carefully against environmental considerations. The proposed night-time flying policy doesn't fully allow us to do that, as it leaves uncertainties that need to be clarified before we consult the public."

Manston chief executive Charles Buchanan said:

"We are disappointed that our proposals are not to be considered at this time. However, we agree with the council that it is vital that the public have a full understanding of the issues and implications of our proposals."

The report highlights recommendations set out by the government in its Planning Policy Guidance, Note 24 which offers planning guidance to local authorities to minimise night noise. It says that in areas where noise regularly exceeds 82db several times an hour they should have development restrictions. A noise monitor in Chapel Place, Ramsgate recorded single noise events of over 82db for every month, except August this year. Mr Buchanan said that was an average over the month, not a constant.

Infratil's application asks for a "quota count" or number of points to be allowed for night flights at the airport. As planes land or take off, points are used up depending on the type of plane and noise created. Infratil wanted 1,995 quota count which Bureau Veritas predicted would mean 7.7 flights at night by 2018. Mr Buchannan said:

"If we flew QC2 at night that would mean seven flights but this falls inside this and it is less than one per hour. The guideline says 82db several times an hour.This is not saying several times an hour and I don't think we will. If we did, then we will have to look at the PPG24. It is vital that the public understand the complications. We are committed to seeking all ways to develop the airport, generating employment and contributing to the growth of Thanet's economy."

No new dates have been set for the public consultation to start on proposals for night flights.

By saul leese saul.leese@krnmedia.co.uk


No Night Flights home page

Manston discussion put back

HBM

Clipping: thisiskent

PLANS for public consultation over the Manston airport nightflights application have been put on hold. Thanet council's bosses met with airport owner Infratil on Monday to recommend it comes up with a revised proposal with fewer flights at night. A report by the council's consultants Bureau Veritas, experts in the aviation industry, suggests cutting the number of night flights by a quarter.

Council leader Bob Bayford said:

"I believe that before residents have their say, they need to know exactly how many aircraft movements are being discussed. That information is difficult to gauge from the proposals that have been put to us, partly because of its technical nature, and this needs further work. I also believe that the proposed upper level of activity is too high and needs to be reconsidered. I am not prepared to start a public consultation until these issues have been resolved. I am pleased to say that the airport has agreed to a review."

Airport chief executive Charles Buchanan said:

"We are disappointed that our proposals are not to be considered at this time. However, we agree with the council that it is vital that the public have a full understanding of the issues and implications of our proposals. We look forward to receiving and responding to the detailed requests from TDC. We remain committed to seeking all ways to develop the airport, supporting and generating further employment and contributing to the growth of the Thanet economy."


No Night Flights home page

Our Children Speak...

HBM

 

To whom it may concern,

I am writing to you to discuss the potential night flights over Ramsgate, speaking on the behalf of all the children in Ramsgate (and other towns that will be affected by night flights). Although it may not seem like a major issue to some people, it is a concern to the locals, in particular the children.

If you were at the meeting at Chatham House, you will have heard all the points against night flights (from locals such as Sue Kennedy), and seen the huge crowd gathered to protest against Manston going ahead with their plans. I was surprised that there were five councillors missing, since this is a major debate.

Anyway, on to the points against night flights. Many of these were brought up during the course of the evening. Firstly, the harm that the noise can do to children. It has been scientifically proven that loud noises are not good for anyone, especially young children and babies. No one should be exposed to more than 50 decibels of noise (according to studies carried out by scientists) and young children and babies shouldn’t be exposed to more than 40 decibels. Yet 747’s sent from Manston can make 60-80 decibels of noise heard from Ramsgate and St. Peters. This is bad enough during the day, but the night time? It would be like sleeping through a tornado. It would be practically impossible.

According to research done by Cornell University, night flights will result in a drop in achievement of children at school. As everyone knows, children are the seeds of the future, and underachievement at school could result in disaster in 20-30 years’ time. Also, night flights will result in increasing health problems in the Isle of Thanet (source of information; World Health Organisation or WHO).

The people running the airport would argue that they could give people jobs. But would all of those jobs go to locals? No. In fact, an estimate of 16 local jobs has been predicted. Besides, Labour (who has recently sided against night flights) claimed that the promise of jobs ‘was merely an aspiration’.

Thank you for reading my letter on night flights.

Yours sincerely, Hal, aged 10. Ramsgate.

See more on: Health


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Planning permission needed for Manston

HBM

Cllr Clive Hart - Leader of Thanet Labour Group:

I'm pleased to see that the Conservative group at TDC agree with us that the current night flying application is unacceptable. I wish to make it absolutely clear that our Labour Group is supportive of the airport and maximising the employment opportunities it will create, but this must not be at any price for Thanet's residents.

We certainly do need to balance the economic benefits against environmental considerations. However the proposed night-time flying policy does not appear to do that and leaves far too many uncertainties, that is why we decided not to support the application.

We have not ruled ourselves out of any future debate because the current application is not being treated as a planning application and therefore the rules on predetermination simply do not apply. Indeed, one of the matters of concern in making our own decision was that we felt that any changes such as the those sought at present may well require planning permission.


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Video snippets from RTC 25th October

HBM

Many thanks to our Multimedia Department (Outside Broadcast Unit) for the following video snippets from the Ramsgate Town Council meeting at Chatham House School on 25th October...

 

Jobs Promised 8½ mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnO5DsICoyE

Noise & Health 6½ mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHpIoO7KBq0&feature=mfu_in_order&playnext=1&videos=LR2iZqla9B0

Worse health and education services? 2 mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jnv8oPVFJU0&feature=mfu_in_order&playnext=1&videos=RVhdl8aOSCc

Follow the money 1½ mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku6kz1R_AuM&feature=mfu_in_order&playnext=1&videos=OWNuQQMOXI4

Impossible to land planes safely until NEXT November 2½ mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr0L_OztAFQ&feature=mfu_in_order&playnext=1&videos=mvoiutz5fvU

Living Next to Noisy neighbours 2 mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mr1ot2rUVs&feature=mfu_in_order&playnext=1&videos=DLkM3c2aOk0

WRIT of MANDAMUS (A writ issued by a superior court ordering a public official or body or a lower court to perform a specified duty)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADv4cQCqAAA&feature=mfu_in_order&playnext=1&videos=VtFfWkM3B7c

Our MPs’ views on Night Flights 1½ mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXSi-c0vmsI&feature=mfu_in_order&playnext=1&videos=JjxdtkaY-Xk

Development & Public Safety Zones 3 mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-I7_RJUshM

Previous Court Judgement about Planning Permission 5 mins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udVzcN0daCg&feature=mfu_in_order&playnext=1&videos=CFSY-wwg1i0

It makes all the difference, remembering to press the start button. Ahem.

See more on: Health


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