Fan mail

You are so backward sorry

I live in Ramsgate & am on the flight path. I have no problem with flights between 6am & midnight. I am on the approach & realise that for the future we need to allow Manston to expand a bit. So if a fire station or Ambulance station was to open near you would you complain about the sirens at 3am???? Perhaps if I was your neighbour & you had to have an ambulance at 3am I would stop it due to the noise from the sirens.

Your

Alun

Cheers, Alun - you're a pal.

A reader writes

I should like to make a few points, of which Cllr Carter should be informed! Firstly, he says that Manston's runway is 2,752m. When I checked, it was 2,658m. Heathrow has two runways - 3,500m and 3,570m, with Gatwick's one at 3,750m. So nowhere near comparable.

He says that Manston "is able to cater for all modern jet aircraft"; that's all very well, but a fully-laden 747 or 767 could not safely take off because there is no room to abort a take off in case of problems. If you remember, an Afghan DC-8 almost came a cropper on 11th August 2010 when, as it was later discovered, it tried to take off 25,000 lbs overweight! (So where are our CAA checks? Who was responsible? How could this happen?) It only just blundered into the sky after gouging grooves in the grass at the end of the runway, just before it could have collided with the traffic on the bit of the B2190 between the Prospect and Manston Road roundabouts! Details of the AAIB investigation can be found here: www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/1670.pdf. If it had been taking off over Ramsgate, it could have ploughed into the traffic on the Haine Road. So, safe, is it?

I don't want night flights, but I'm not against the airport succeeding. But why don't people look at past history? (Sorry - no one ever does!) No one has succeeded with pie-in-the-sky, fantasy ideas. It is a small airfield, not a major airport! It could succeed as a part cargo/part holiday destination airfield. Small aircraft, such as the Fokkers that had European destinations, could attract most of our limited catchment area. I note you say that people living within reach of Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton, Stansted, will obviously go there because of the choice of destinations. Agreed. We need someone to take over Manston who can see it for what it is and accept its limited capabilities. But now, I suppose, I'm looking at pie in the sky!

S.B.

Night flight blight triggers house price crash

Ramsgate property prices have dropped over 7% in the last 6 months.

The effects of "night flight blight" can already be seen in the fall in house prices in Ramsgate, as compared to the rest of Thanet.

Despite its architectural richness, thriving independent retail sector, attractive harbour and the new high speed rail link, prices in Ramsgate over the last 6 months have fallen sharply (from www.zoopla.co.uk):

Ramsgate:	-7.36%
Broadstairs:	+0.54%
Margate:	-1.70%

The high speed rail link was expected to boost property prices by up to 20%, so what's gone wrong? The answer, my friend, is lumbering over the horizon, blotting out the moonlight and wrecking thousands of lives across north-east Kent. The answer is night flights.

The wisdom of crowds: does anyone know whether local residents would be able to claim compensation from TDC or Infratil for the loss in value of their homes, and how we would set about it?

If you do want to be able to claim any kind of compensation for the loss in value of your single most expensive asset (your home), you'll need to have some "before and after" figures, so get in touch with some local estate agents and get your home valued now.

Bus day in Ramsgate

We were down at the harbour for most of the morning because the press wanted us to be there at 10, 11 and 12 so, given that we wanted maximum publicity, we needed to do that.

Unfortunately the splendid and venerable bus, loaned to us by a Ramsgate resident and supporter, broke down in Queen Street and so we were unable to get all around town as planned - apologies to all those who had camped out waiting for a glimpse!

We were delighted with the response, lots of people came out to support, we were able to speak to residents and visitors who were unaware of the proposal, and we were able to speak to people about the facts etc etc.

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Here are some of the highlights of the day - do feel free to add your own...

• The sheer numbers of people who were visiting, either for the day or on a weekend break. There were people from all over the country. I had no idea there were so many visitors. Has anybody collated any data about the numbers of people visiting Ramsgate and the income they must be producing for the town? Almost everybody I spoke to who was visiting was appalled by the idea of night-flights and understood why we were opposing them.
• The fact that the only argument put forward by the pro-night-flighters was "jobs" and the fact that none of them could explain how the night-flights would create these jobs. Many people were in favour of night-flights for passenger flights but not if they were going to be used for freight. When I pointed out that this proposal didn't distinguish they were happy to sign. It brought home to me the importance of continuing to undermine the "thousands of jobs" nonsense. It really is the key to changing perceptions. I just love the people who won't make eye contact with you and weave around you, muttering and shaking their heads.
• There was a surprising number of people who said that night-flights didn't bother them and that they slept right through them. When I pointed out that we didn't have any night-flights at the moment they seemed perplexed. Their views did highlight how so many of the pro-lobby only think about themselves and don't care as long as it doesn't affect them. I haven't (yet) come up with a succinct way of describing this attitude but it strikes me that they are the real NIMBYs.
• A very articulate and knowledgeable chap who took Alan Poole apart. He told Alan that the mess they are now in was a direct result of the Section 106 Agreement which he and his colleagues had signed. He cited the way in which penalties are not specified for breaches of the agreement and how the agreement specifies that the airport operator only has to present a policy in order to commence night-flights. Poole attempted to counter by saying that it was the "best agreement they could get at the time". The articulate chap pointed out that they had been under no obligation to sign any agreement at all, and that they would have had far more control in the current situation if the Section 106 did not exist. In other words, the Section 106 is worse than no agreement at all. Poole was way out of his depth and looked very uncomfortable. Labour councillors should be reminded of this at every opportunity.
• The numbers of people who have no idea who Gerry O'Donnell is, but think he is a complete *rse. Way to go, Gerry.
• The Labour Councillors who put money in our bucket. We could end up in the bizarre situation of fighting a court battle against councillors who have helped to fund our case.
• The chap from Spencer Square who loudly and confidently proclaimed that he didn't believe any of it, the noise, the pollution, the health effects. It was all a load of nonsense and night flights should be allowed. I asked him "But what if you're wrong?" At this he went very quiet and his wife gave him a quizzical look. He turned and stalked away. Again, he didn't have a single fact or piece of data to back up his opinion.
• The chap from St. Lawrence who has his own portable noise monitor, and records times, dates and noise levels of flights which pass over his house. He has recent readings in excess of 100 decibels, well above the 80-90 decibels supposedly being recorded at the official monitor, which is less than 100 metres away from his house!
• Brilliant impromptu (or rather, not planned by us) appearances from the old guy in pyjamas and dressing gown and the kids with noise protector headphones and home made signs which both made for great photo opportunities and were lapped up by the press photographers.
• The bus had real impact. Provided a great stationary billboard and pitch for us and welcoming people on, dishing out tea and biscuits etc all felt good and again, furthered the impression of the group being friendly, welcoming etc - plus we gathered a real crowd outside. When the bus was driving, the giant banners certainly drew people's attention and I'm sure the short, sharp and punchy messages were easily read and digested.
• Jobs, jobs, jobs again from people. I had "there's 0% unemployment around Gatwick" a couple of times. If you can get people to actually listen and engage, you can sometimes present them with facts but a lot of the time they just have these myths firmly embedded in their brains - very difficult.

The antidote to night flights - all aboard!

This is excellent! We've got our hands on a bus!

We'll be driving all over Ramsgate on Saturday 25th February, and the bus will be covered with No Night Flights banners and bunting, so we'll be easy to spot.

The bus will be full of lovely No Night Flights campaigners, so do feel free to wave, blow us kisses, and come up and introduce yourselves.

We will be dispensing tea, biscuits, facts and earplugs as we tell the good people of Ramsgate about the awful truth behind Manston's night flights proposal, and collect "No thank you" letters for the public consultation.

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Where and When?

We've arranged for the local press to come along to cover the story and get some "crowd shots" for next week's papers, and we've got Thanet's finest film-makers joining us to record the day - bound to be a blockbuster!

If you want to be sure of your 15 minutes of fame, you'll need to meet the bus at Ramsgate Harbour, where it will be stopping off on its all-day tour. The two big photo opportunities will be at 11am sharp, and at 12 noon on the dot, so be there a bit early to make sure you get in the frame! Our movie moguls will be with us throughout the day.

Tannoyance

Where in Ramsgate can you hear the Tannoys at the port and the station? Wherever it is, that's where this chap lives. He signs himself Mr Porter, although his email address suggests his name is Mr Turner. Either way, he asks some oft-repeated questions.

Quick answers: (1) and (2) - it is because we live and have our livelihoods under and near the flight paths that we are so concerned; (3) not sure how this is relevant - I don't need to be a civil engineer to have an opinion on whether I want a dual carriageway built in my gardern; (4) I am so bored of this one.

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Dear Sir / Madame,

I have read some of your information with regards to Manston and the intended flights and alleged disturbances. I would however like to ask some questions to help me understand the reasons for your train of thought.

1. How many of you live on or near the flight path ?
2. Do you have businesses or investments around the flight path ?
3. How many of you have worked in Aviation and understand the logistics of airport business?!
4. If you do not like noise then why live near an airport that has existed for over 100 years ?

As for those that do not want the intended night flights to carry out an invasion of their sleep, not that it will, disperse huge amounts of pollution, no more than having hundreds of lorries carrying the items from abroad off the ferry terminal, while on the subject of the ferry terminal I can hear the Tannoy system and noise of the ships being loaded/unloaded from my house, do I ask that it is closed or has restricted working hours no. I understand that the ferries bring cargo into the UK and thus to our shops etc. Also they create jobs that outweigh the noise pollution.

Ramsgate Railway Station is another location  of noise, I can hear the Tannoy system and announcements and the trains with their flat spots on the wheels, loud horns and squealing brakes but I do not ask that the railway be closed  ? No once again I understand that this is an integral part of our community that serves us by allowing locals to commute to their chosen occupations while bringing in people to work or holiday in our local towns thus bringing in revenue to local businesses.   

I do wonder how many people actually own their own houses and live on the flight path that are so negative to the night flights, The labour increase would be highly beneficial to an area that has so little employment, giving many types of careers for lots of different people and this will be part time full time and shift work.

I look forward to hearing your answers and thoughts.

Kind Regards

Mr Porter.

Threat to night time flights bid

Plans for night flights from Manston Airport could be under threat as the Labour takes control of the council. Airport director Charles Buchanan is looking to meet with the new administration which campaigned in May's election on the promise it would oppose night flights. Mr Buchanan said:

"We are looking to meet with the new administration at the earliest opportunity and discuss the proposals we have put forward."

Despite an anti-night flight stance in its manifesto the Labour group has yet to comment on the latest proposals by Manston Airport. One Labour councillor who has spoken out against night flights is Ramsgate Mayor David Green. He said:

"The position is being looked at more or less as we speak. I can not say what it will be, it is quite difficult. We are taking time to talk to everyone involved."

Since Manston Airport submitted its proposals for an average of eight flights a night (between 11pm and 7am), many Labour councillors have been reluctant to comment on the issue through fear that any pre-determination would preclude them from voting on night flights in any future debate.

thisiskent 23rd Dec 2012

Life under the flight path

Hi,

I attended your meeting at Chatham House School on Friday 25.11.11 and I was impressed to see so many like minded people ready to stand against Manston Airports plans, great meeting, great job done by all the speakers, keep up the good work.

I brought along a copy of a photo which I was asked to send to you. I live on a Mobile home park known as Smugglers Leap which is situated in a large chalk pit next to the Minster roundabout Ramsgate, this park is directly situated next to the flight path of planes coming into land from the Canterbury direction, I am supplying a photo of a 747 coming into land, the roof apex in this photo is my mobile home.

Coming into land this way is not so bad but when large planes take off over our direction the noise is considerably more and the thrust of the engines can be felt, indeed our mobile homes shake, I have no problem with Manston expanding if it is helping our local economy but if regular night flying is to become the norm then living in my home will obviously become impossible.

And to those people who say "well you chose to live there" I can only reply that some of us have no choice but to live in places like this indeed some of us are not as fortunate as people who can afford to move into large well insulated houses. 

Yanks for the memory

Ah yes, there are those who go misty-eyed at the memory of the USAF and their fantastically noisy jets at Manston. It appears that the memory is selective...

In the early 1950s America was even more racially broken than it is today, and this was evident amongst their armed forces, even when abroad. On arriving in beautiful Thanet, the white air force personnel made themselves at home in Margate, away from the noise of the flightpath.

Guess where the black guys ended up...

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Worst Thanet movie ever...

Well, as the caption says, thank God it's only a movie...

It is just a joke, right?