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Community website for all things Herne Bay (Kent, UK). Covers: The Downs, Herne Bay Museum, Herne Bay Historical Records Society, Herne Bay Pier Trust, Herne Bay in Bloom, East Cliff Neighbourhood Panel, No Night Flights, Manston Airport, Save Hillborough, Kitewood, WEA, Local Plan and much, much more...

No Night Flights

Filtering by Category: Night flights

Night Flights: too hot to handle?

HBM

Calling all TDC-ologists: what's going to happen on Thursday?

Cllrs Hart and Poole have tabled a motion about Night Flights for the Council meeting on Thursday 14th July 2011. The blurbs that come with the meeting handouts say that there are two options:

  • To note that the motion stands referred without discussion to Cabinet; or
  • To debate the motion.

All the Councillors who pay any attention at all will have registered that night flights are a hot topic. All the manifestos made some kind of reference or pledge, and the results in several seats in Ramsgate were decided on the strength of the candidates' stance on night flights.

The election is over, the dust has settled, and there's no longer any need to pussy-foot about. The Council is now in a position to knuckle down and get on with the job it was elected for: representing the wishes and interests of the electorate.

So, what's it to be? Kick it into the long grass, or debate it? Click here to find out what happened.


“The Council adopts a policy of not allowing scheduled, pre-planned or otherwise timetabled flights between the hours of 23:00 and 07:00. That a period of 1 hour at either end of the flying day be allowed for late/early arriving flights only. That a penalty be applied to any flights arriving during the 1 hour periods. No take-offs will be allowed between 23:00 and 07:00 hours and a schedule of exceptions to the above be prepared to include ‘mercy flights’, and flights for medical emergencies, coastguard movements etc.”


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Woken in the small hours, 1st July

HBM

Hi,

I live in Ramsgate and was woken up at 3.50am this morning (1st July 2011) by a plane coming in to land at Manston.  I couldn't get back to sleep.  I feel terrible now and I know I'll feel terrible for the rest of the day.  It makes Ramsgate a bad place to live and I find that really upsetting.

N.L.


Hello,

Not sure if this will go to the correct people, if not you can pass it on please.

Today, Friday 1 July at 03.51 this morning an aircraft landed at Manston Airport, with a lot of noise, again at about 05.00 another movement, sounded like a smaller plane but still quite noisy.

Considering there are supposed to be no night flights, these movements are not just late arrivals.

The complaints dept. phone has been unavailable all morning and still is.

I contacted 01843 823949 and spoke to a young lady who said my complaint would be passed on and a letter would be sent to me later. Will let you know the contents soon after receipt.

Yours sincerely,

DC (Cliffsend )


Woken this morning at 03:55 by plane coming in to land over Ramsgate.  Will be drafting letter to Lazy Laura this weekend, demanding action be taken.

BP (Ramsgate)


COMPLAIN!




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Talks continue over airport job losses

HBM

Potential job losses at Manston airport are still a reality as the statutory consultation with its staff ended this week. Airport chief executive Charles Buchanan confirmed that talks were ongoing after the minimum 90-day period was fulfilled this week.

Meanwhile, the airport will submit a new proposal for expansion to the council's Airport Working Group next month. Campaigners against the expansion oppose Buchanan's plans as the possibility of noisy night flights would affect their sleep and quality of life.

Buchanan understands the concerns but believes the impact of the expansion must be balanced with the economic benefits. Plans to welcome a major airline are still being negotiated.

IoT Gazette 24th Jun 2011


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Motion calls for a policy on scheduled night flights

HBM

The Thanet Labour group has tabled a resolution over night flights from Manston airport at the district council's next meeting.

The motion calls for the council to adopt a policy of not allowing scheduled or planned flights between 11pm and 7am and to rule that any arrivals or departures in an extra hour either side be subject to a fine.  Exceptions to the ban would include "mercy flights" and flights for medical emergencies under Labour's proposals.  Labour's Councillor David Green said:

"Thanet District Council, as the local planning authority, has a clear duty to produce a Local Development Framework, against which local businesses, developers and residents can plan their future in terms of land use and environmental impact. It is clear that the council has failed in this duty with regard to the future development of Kent International Airport. The environmental agreement that controls the conditions of use of the airport (section 106) was devised in 2000 and was anticipated as being updated every three years. In the intervening years it has served the community well, allowing development of the airport, but protecting residents from the worst environmental impacts. However, the aircraft industry and environmental standards have moved on. A new agreement is required, and the airport owners need a clear guide to what is acceptable."

Labour believes that merely reworking the old Section 106 is inadequate and that a new application through the planning process is necessary because of fears over residents' health from noise and disrupted sleep patterns. Mr Green added:

"The legal opinion obtained on at least two occasions has been that night-time flying represents sufficient intensification of use as to require fresh planning approval."

Thanet council leader Bob Bayford said the motion was "premature". He added:

"As far as I can see the resolution is very little different to the policy the council already has on night flights. I think the time to debate the council's policy on night flying is when we have a proposal from Infratil on changes to it, not before."

thisiskent 10th Jun 2011


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Protesters claim research is misleading

HBM

Campaigners against proposals for regular night flights at Manston airport have questioned research claiming growth would provide 3,000 jobs. Last week York Aviation's study, on behalf of airport owners Infratil, claimed Manston would contribute nearly £65 million a year to the local economy by 2018 if expansion was allowed. Using industry standard figures, the aviation consultants found Manston would provide direct employment for 2,070 people and more in indirect employment.

Campaigners from the No To Night Flights group questioned the basis for the figures. They claim Bournemouth airport handles 1 million passengers with 247 jobs and Stansted estimated its jobs total will soon fall to 330 per 1 million passengers. At London City airport, where Manston airport chief executive Charles Buchanan worked before joining Infratil, the group says Mr Buchanan "promised" 3,135 jobs for an extra 36,000 flights but only 726 jobs were created.

Susan Kennedy from No Night Flights said:

"These 3,000 jobs rely on the airport's entire Master Plan being achieved. Night flights will not bring 3,000 jobs. They might not bring any new jobs."

The group also raised doubts over the possibility of realising the aims in the master plan. Ms Kennedy said:

"If the predictions in the master plan were correct, Manston would now have 1.3 million passengers per year. It actually has just 32,000. Last year, the master plan said 2.4 million passengers will create 600 direct jobs. However, Manston is now saying that 2.4 million passengers will create 2,070 direct jobs. What an extraordinary drop in productivity! Mr Buchanan is an experienced PR operator. He knows local people and some politicians fall for the idea of thousands of jobs because we're in an area hard hit by unemployment. Night flights will not bring jobs, but will lose existing tourism-based jobs."

The group's view was backed by Thanet council's Labour group which, in a statement, said the master plan was "an expression of Infratil's hopes for the future". Thanet Labour deputy leader Alan Poole said:

"Master Plans are at best guesses and should be treated with appropriate scepticism. Manston is operating nowhere near capacity during the day and the introduction of night flights from 11pm to 7am simply cannot be justified. Night flights could bring untold misery to Thanet's residents. The health and quality of life for Thanet's residents must surely remain paramount considerations."


Isle of Thanet Gazette 3rd June 2011

See more on: Health


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Readers write

HBM

Subject: Flight last night

Message: Hi, just wanted to let you know for your records that once again a plane landed at Manston around 11.15pm last night (30th May 2011) I was in my garden with my dog at the time. It wasn't one of the largest cargo planes, but was still very noisy and appeared to be a medium sized passenger plane - but I'm no expert so this may not be correct. I couldn't see a name / logo. Once the plane had passed there was terrific amount of turbulence afterwards.

S. (Nethercourt resident)


There was a night flight arrival over Ramsgate at 11.17 last night - possibly the 10.22 late arriving, though it sounded louder than a passenger plane!

A.P.

later...

Last night`s late flight coming over at 11.17 pm was, in fact, the 10.22 pm passenger plane late. I know someone who was on the plane. He said that they were going to take them to Gatwick and lay on buses, but there was uproar on the plane which resulted in them getting permission to land here. So now Thanet travellers know that if they cause trouble on a late plane we will have to put up with being disturbed.

A.P.


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Manston's job forecasts

HBM

Optimism or Deceit?

Bless 'em, they've got to spin the best yarn they can to persuade TDC to play ball over night flights, so Manston commissioned York Aviation to spin it for them. Cruelly dubbed by some as "the porkies from the Yorkies", the report from the independent aviation consultants has plucked some enticingly large numbers out of thin air.

They state, with what is intended as reassuring confidence, that by 2018 Manston will have created 2,070 direct jobs by handling 2,286,000 passengers a year - that's 1,104 jobs per million passengers. Let's see how that stacks up against reality:

Click it to big it

Two things stand out on this graph:

  1. The Manston figure is far higher than any other. The lowest of all is the inventor of the absurdly low cost flying cattle truck, Ryanair (106, less than a tenth of Manston's figure). By their own admission, Ryanair have pushed the low cost (and therefore low employment) model about as far as it can go.
  2. Where we have enough points for a trend, it is definitely downwards. The increased competition from the ever-increasing number of airlines, the growth of the low cost model, and the squeeze of rising fuel costs have all resulted in falling staff levels at airlines.

The comparison with other airports is even more enlightening, and the same two features grab the attention:

  1. Manston's figure is higher than any other this century, and is more than four times higher than its sister airport at Prestwick.
  2. Again, the trend is overwhelmingly downwards. The relentless growth of the low cost model brings with it lower staffing at the airports it uses. Manston's strategy, as laid out in the Master Plan, is based on attracting passengers using low fare carriers "such as Ryanair, easyjet or bmibaby".

Is Manston really so committed to regenerating East Kent that they will charitably over-employ? Are Kentish workers really so much lazier than anywhere else in the UK? Are Infratil's shareholders thrilled at the prospect of Manston promising to become the least efficient airport in Britain?

Enough of the rhetorical questions, already! Manston's job forecasts have gone far beyond optimism, and beyond exaggeration. These numbers are wild extrapolations from an absurdly bullish, and frankly unachievable, Master Plan. Manston's hope is that TDC will fall for it, and permit night flights.

Manston is currently unsellable (as a commercial passenger airport) because nobody has managed to make a go of it. Its a non-runner. Getting the go-ahead for night flights MAY be enough to persuade someone with a different, i.e. non-passenger, business model that it could work for them. Infratil promise their investors a 20% return. The Manston site cost them £10.3m in 2005 and has lost millions a year ever since. Their investors won't have the patience for Manston to start breaking even, let alone wait for it to start delivering a 20% return.

Intfratil's best option is to make the airport sellable, by giving it a unique selling point - 24 hour flights - and sell as soon as possible for as much as possible, thus crystallising their losses and freeing up cash to invest elsewhere.


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Airport expansion could bring 3,500 jobs

HBM

New research for Manston airport owners Infratil shows that the airport could create 3,500 jobs in the local economy, but only if more flexibility is allowed for night flights. The study by aviation consultants York Aviation into the economic impact of Manston suggests it would contribute nearly £65 million a year to the local economy by 2018, if its masterplan development is realised.

The research indicates the airport would provide direct employment for 2,070 people and a further 1,035 jobs in the wider economy by 2018, on the basis of the masterplan. The findings reinforce the claims in the airport's masterplan and Infratil's vision of developing a South East regional airport that would offer scheduled passenger services, chartered flights and handling international freight.

The report was commissioned by Infratil after Thanet council asked for more information about the impact of night flying and the economic value of the airport. This came after the authority was asked to consider lifting the ban on aircraft using the airport after 11pm and before 7am. The results of the research were released this week as work continues on a new multimillion-pound radar system at the airport and a three-times-a-week passenger service, scheduled by Flybe, was launched to Belfast City.

Using data from the masterplan, the airport's customers and aviation industry, York Aviation concluded that the ability to handle some aircraft movements between 11pm and 7am would be necessary for Manston to attract a low-cost airline with planes based at the airport, as well as handle greater levels of freight from around the world. Charles Buchanan, chief executive of Manston airport, said:

"Our aspiration is to have aircraft actually based at the airport as this would significantly increase the number of routes we could serve and passengers arriving and departing from Manston. Persuading airlines to base planes at the airport would generate further local employment opportunities for cabin crew and additional airport jobs. Despite the present economic situation we remain confident that airlines will choose Manston and build upon our Flybe services and charter services. The research examined the viability of the airport's masterplan and concluded that the aspiration to become a sustainable South East regional airport could only be achieved by Manston ensuring it has a mix of passenger and freight services using the airport."

The masterplan shows the airport handling 2.2 million passengers and 167,000 tonnes of freight by 2018. This research shows that these levels are achievable, provided the management of the night-flying policy is implemented. Mr Buchanan added:

"We recognise that the issue of night flights is a high-profile one within the district and we are currently developing our detailed proposal and hope to be in a position to submit it shortly, and then for public consultation to begin."

York Aviation is in the process of finalising the second part of the research, which will assess the impact that the imposition of a stringent night movement policy would have on the airport's economic impact and commercial operation.

IoT Gazette 27th May 2011


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Boris confined to London!

HBM

Those nice people at AEF (the Aviation Environment Federation) have managed to shoe-horn a little bit of sense into Boris' more grandiose ramblings. The London Plan is now restricted to, er, London - rather than the whole south east, and it now contains a commitment to phasing out night flights. Great work, guys!


The London Plan is the spatial strategy for London.  At the 'Examination in Public' (EiP) last autumn AEF was invited to present its views on the draft Plan, following written representations. The report of the Panel of inspectors has now been published.

By the time the EiP was held, the coalition government had announced that it was opposed to a third runway at Heathrow. This was supported in the plan, which was unsurprising as Mayor Boris Johnson is Conservative. However the draft Plan said "..  he [the Mayor] does recognise the need for additional runway capacity in the south-east of England."  AEF argued that this was gratuitous, because no evidence was presented to this effect and the national government was not of this view, having come out against extra runways in the SE, not just at Heathrow. The Panel agreed, noting also that airports outside London were outside the remit of the London Plan, and they recommended that the statement be deleted.

The Panel also recommend that the following statement be inserted ".. supports the government statement of 7 September 2010 opposing mixed-mode operations and supporting runway alternation, westerly preference and related measures to mitigate noise effects on local communities.  He also supports phasing out of scheduled ATMs during the night-time quota period."  

We also said that Noise Action Plans and designated 'Quiet Areas' should be specifically mentioned in the Plan. This was done, the Panel recommending this addition "The Mayor will support action by Airport Operators to prepare Noise Action Plans for London's Airports and by the Boroughs to identify and implement 'Quiet Areas' with a view to ensuring that environmental issues are suitably taken into account alongside economic considerations when dealing with aviation-related development". However, this statement is rather double-edged. It seems to endorse a widespread conventional view that environment and quality of life can be sacrificed in the name of economic benefits.


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BBC: Biased Broadcast Coverage?

HBM

Yesterday saw the official launch of Manston's latest bid to stuff our ears full of planes, round the clock. Charles Buchanan got favourable coverage on BBC TV, and uncritical coverage on BBC Radio Kent. Not everybody is pleased...


I saw the news today and felt like hitting the idiot who claims 3000 jobs will be created. What about the thousands of people who will have interrupted sleep and just do not want this????? I feel so angry and helpless.

SC, Ramsgate resident


Dear South East Today,

I understand that you are going to run a news item this evening featuring Mr. Buchanan of Manston Airport. I understand that he has commissioned a report which he is describing as "independent" and that this report says that night-flights are vital to the future of Manston. I would like to make a few salient points:

  • The interests of Ramsgate do not revolve solely around Infratil's desire to make money. There are hundreds of businesses and thousands of individuals for whom quality of life is a key factor in their decision to be here. When Manston was privatised we were told that the airport had to succeed or the area would die. Well, the airport has not succeeded and the area is still alive. There is no reason to fall for this rhetoric a second time. We simply do not know what would happen if the airport were to shut. It is entirely possible that whatever replaced it would generate far more employment than the airport ever has. Infratil needs to focus on using the runway that lies empty all day rather than seeking to introduce unsustainable night-flights.
  • When Infratil bought Manston Airport, they were fully aware that there were restrictions on night-flights. If they had bothered looking they would have seen the large town at the end of the runway, and would have realized that it was unrealistic to expect this to change.
  • The Section 106 Agreement, which sets out the restrictions applicable at Manston, is supposed to be renegotiated every few years. It is now more than ten years old and has never been renegotiated. If Mr. Buchanan wants to change the rules on night-flights shouldn't he be doing this by renegotiating the agreement, rather than using the media to host a campaign on his behalf?
  • If Mr. Buchanan wants to introduce night-flights why hasn't he submitted a planning application?
  • We have just had elections in Thanet. The party which publicly opposed night-flights in its manifesto was elected unanimously in all areas under the flight-paths, and the party which refused to make its position clear was rejected. The public has made its opinion clear on this matter and Mr. Buchanan ought to accept this.

I hope these comments help,

Yours sincerely,

PB, Ramsgate resident


York Aviation told us 3,000 jobs could be created IF Manston gets Night Flights. Spokeswoman Louise Congdon, later admitted when asked if night flights alone would deliver these jobs, she replied, we are still in the process of calculating.

The fact is, these 3000 jobs rely solely on the Airports Master Plan being achieved. Night Flights will not bring 3000 jobs- Airport workers tell us they could handle night flights within their existing staff.

Louise Congdon confessed she had not looked at the plausibility of the Master Plan itself.

Lets look at it now! If the predictions were correct Manston would now have 1.3 million passengers, it only has 32,000. The master Plan says 2.4m passengers create 600 direct jobs. Manston is now saying 2.4m passengers equals 2,070 direct jobs, Wow - What a drop in productivity! If Manston needs 2,070 jobs for 2.4m passengers, that’s 905 jobs per million passengers.

Prestwick Airport have real flights and actual jobs rather than estimates, they need fewer than 300 jobs per million. Prestwick is another of INFRATIL airport, so it is a surprise Buchanan does not seem to know this. Maybe he thinks an East Kent worker is one third as useful as a Scottish one.

Just look at Buchanan’s track record regarding job promises. London City Airport he promised 3,135 jobs for an extra 36,000 flights, he got his flights but created only 726 jobs, only 200 of which went to the local people. 3,135 to 200 - it’s not optimistic , is it? This is a very successful airport that has no night Flights.

Mr Buchan is an experienced PR operator. He knows our politicians fall for the idea of thousands of jobs, because we’re in an area hard hit by unemployment - but promises are disingenuous at best and in no way match the facts the he has available to him. Night flights will not bring jobs, but will lose existing tourism-based jobs.

CB, Ramsgate resident


Dear Mr Warnett

Further to your item today which included an interview with a spokesperson from York Aviation and with Charles Buchanan. I write to express my concern about this news item.

  • I'm concerned that such an important issue was not presented in a balanced way since no opponent to night flights was invited to speak on the programme.
  • Clare McDonnell introduced the item by saying that 'almost 3,000 jobs could be created' if night flights were allowed out of Manston - 'that is the conclusion' of York Aviation. In fact, as Louise Congdon of York Aviation went on to say in the piece when quizzed on whether night flights specifically would bring about expansion/jobs, 'we are still in the process of calculating'. So, night flights equal jobs was not the conclusion of this report. This needs to be rectified.
  • I would have liked some kind of questioning of Charles Buchanan regarding his track record. When Charles Buchanan was part of the management team at London City airport – the airport promised that in return for permission to increase flights by 50% (that’s 36,000 flights), there would be 3,135 new jobs. They got their flights and by 2008 had created only 726 jobs – a fraction of what was promised and only 30% of those were for local people. So 36,000 extra flights delivered only 210 local jobs. Buchanan loves spinning the notion of thousands of jobs - particularly in an area hard hit by long term and recent unemployment - but the figures across the industry show that this is disingenuous at best and downright falsehood at worse.
  • I would have thought that in an item that focused on jobs, you would have wanted to consider the numbers of jobs lost as a result of any night time flying. With planes flying so low over Ramsgate during the night one might just as well sound the death knell of any tourism/leisure industry in the town. Hotels, guesthouses, B&Bs, restaurants - why would anyone come stay in town so blighted? Maybe you are unaware of how low the planes fly and how noisy they are.
  • Should you not have quizzed Charles Buchanan on why the airport is not able to make good use of its day time slots?
  • The claim that night flights gives Manston 'the ability to attract airlines' wasn't challenged at all. Where is the evidence for this? At a Ramsgate Town Council meeting late last year, Charles Buchanan stated that 'at this time we have no prospective customers'. So, even at a time when Infratil had a night flight application in with TDC, Charles Buchanan couldn't find a single airline sniffing in anticipation. There hardly seems to be a queue of airlines desperate to operate out of Manston given night flights.
  • I am surprised that your item didn't choose to relate the story to the recent elections where a resounding and atypical victory of the Labour party in Ramsgate showed that residents voted firmly for the party that had specifically and categorically come out against night flights.
  • Nor did you choose to present a full picture of the impact of night flights on a population. With a rapidly growing body of evidence about the damaging effects, moves are towards eliminating exiting night flights and certainly no airport should be moving towards instating them. New evidence from Warwick Medical School shows that less than 6 hours sleep and disturbed sleep = 48% more chance of developing or dying from heart conditions. Latest WHO guidelines say night-time noise should be kept at no more than 40 dB, but a 747 taking off over Ramsgate will subject 30,900 people to 85 dB. Even with insulation in place, the independent BV report has said the number of people exposed to significant levels of night-time noise is not justified by the number of passengers and freight activity that are forecast to benefit from the proposals. Surely this is newsworthy?

I'd appreciate a more balanced look at such an important issue rather than a fairly casual top and tail to an item which seemed to give the impression that jobs were guaranteed and the small inconvenience of a bit of night time noise would be a small price to pay.

Please redress the balance by an item that looks at previous claims regarding jobs made by Charles Buchanan and by others in the aviation industry that have failed to deliver.

Also, let's have some experts in environmental and health matters appearing on your programme.

Oh, and what about a voice from the people who would be under those extremely low-flying night time planes?

Kind regards,

SK, Ramsgate resident


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