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Herne Bay, England, CT6
United Kingdom

Community website for all things Herne Bay (Kent, UK). Covers: The Downs, Herne Bay Museum, Herne Bay Historical Records Society, Herne Bay Pier Trust, Herne Bay in Bloom, East Cliff Neighbourhood Panel, No Night Flights, Manston Airport, Save Hillborough, Kitewood, WEA, Local Plan and much, much more...

No Night Flights

Filtering by Tag: Complaints

Reality hits home, Infratil leave town

HBM

Delusion has finally been swept away by the onslaught of reality and Infratil are throwing in the towel. This has been a long time coming, and Nostrildamus predicted it in November 2010.


Manston Airport has been put up for sale. Bosses at Kent International Airport told staff at 10.30am yesterday (Friday) morning. The shock decision was made by owners Infratil. The New Zealand-based company also plans to sell its airport at Prestwick near Glasgow.

IoT Gazette 8th March 2012


This is obviously bad news for all those employed at the airport. Manston was clearly one of Infratil's rare bad investments, and the workforce at the airport did their best to make a silk purse out of a flying pig's ear, but to no avail. After having been strung along for so long, I hope that they get decent redundancy packages from Infratil. Except Charles Buchanan, and whoever runs their complaints department, obviously.

One excellent aspect of this is that TDC now have an unmissable opportunity to start with a clean slate. If Manston is sold as an airport, the Council can enter into fresh negotiations with the new owners and arrive at a planning permission that satisfies the owner's need for a stable long-term framework within which to develop their business plans, and the Council can write a new S106 agreement that is effective in protecting the interests of the residents of north-east Kent.

Have a look at these posts for a positive take on how we could get a win-win result.


No Night Flights home page

Manston Parish Council: night flights meeting

HBM

Hello,

My husband and I have been reading your newsletters with interest. When we moved to Manston in 2003, the level of activity at the airport was acceptable. However, we were totally unaware of the failed proposals that had been submitted in the past. We have been complaining to Infratil on a regular basis and, in line with comments from some of your subscribers, Infratil rarely acknowledged our complaint. We have since discovered that there are actually two links to two different complaint forms online. Since we have used your link, we have been receiving the usual standard reply, but we keep plugging!

For us, it's not "just" the night flights issue - often during the day the ghastly smell of jet fumes pervades our small development, and our houses (even with windows closed) and we have been concerned about pollution when jets linger on the apron. For my part, I am at home all day, so there is no escape for me!

We thought you might be interested to know (if you don't already!) that Manston Parish Council has convened a special meeting at 6pm at the Village Hall, Preston Road, on Friday 11 November. The Parish Council is keen to know the views of local residents in order to present "our" overall opinion to TDC.

There is a caveat on the invitation... The meeting is open only to Manston residents whose names appear on the current electoral role!

Kind regards,

Manston resident


No Night Flights home page

Oh. There goes another one.

HBM

28th October 2011 at 23:30 over Herne Bay

A noisy cargo plane, which Manston's complaints department will undoubtedly tell me is a late arrival.

I learn from Twitter it was N383WA, a World Cargo Airways McDonnell Douglas MD-11.

As well as being one of the noisier planes to use Manston, the MD-11 is an incomprehensibly badly designed plane with a startlingly poor accident and safety record.

Visit www.airlinesafety.com for full details. I warn you, this is not for the faint-hearted.


No Night Flights home page

Does Manston already have a night flight schedule?

HBM

The proof may be sitting in your email account

If we all get cracking on this, we may be able to present our case to Infratil and TDC at Friday's KIACC meeting.

The infuriatingly poor responses that are churned out by Manston's complaints department do actually contain tiny grains of truth. With enough of these facts in one place, we can piece together an accurate picture of what's really happening.

Most email programs will let you search by sender, or by contents. Have a search through your emails for anything that came from one of these addresses:

elaine.tanner@kia-m.com
elaine.tanner@manstonairport.com
customer.services@kia-m.com
customer.services@manstonairport.com

or anything that contains the phrase:

cause to complain about the operation of the Airport

We all know that most of what appears in the email is the same old nonsense every time. The important bit that we're interested in is the stuff that usually appears in a little box about a third of the way down - the details of the flight(s) you complained about.

These are the details that we would like you to send in: the Date, the Time, the Operator and flight details, and any other comments that Manston included about the flight(s). Even if you've only got one of these emails left on your PC, please send us the details, because taken together with all the rest it will help complete the jigsaw.

We're particularly interested in Cargolux, Iran Air and Egypt Air flights, but every piece of information you send us will be useful, and much appreciated.

Send whatever you've got to: NoNightFlights@gmail.com


No Night Flights home page

Infratil complaints

HBM

Some of our readers have been asking who they should complain to about Infratil, the owners of Manston airport. And some of our readers have been telling us about who they have complained to about Infratil.

As a public service, we shall be helping the first group by telling them about the second group's efforts. First up: the New Zealand High Commission in London.

The New Zealand High Commission is an overseas post of the New Zealand Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade. The focus of the High Commission's work is managing New Zealand's political, economic and trade relations with the United Kingdom and Ireland. They have now been told that "Infratil is as welcome in Thanet as a nasty rash", which probably came as a surprise to them.

More suggestions welcome.


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Woken in the small hours, 10th July

HBM

Thanet District Council's Penny Button Penny.Button@thanet.gov.uk has special responsibility for Manston Airport. Here's what she had to say to one of the many unhappy residents who contacted her:


Thank you for your recent enquiry regarding an aircraft movement associated with Kent International Airport. The statutory powers available to Thanet District Council to deal with noise exclude aircraft noise, however, we do have a voluntary Town & Country Planning Act S106 agreement with the airport operator which contains some sanctions with regard to aircraft movements.

This agreement allows for departures to European destinations or arrivals from North America by solely passenger carrying aircraft scheduled to occur between 0600 and 0700 hours on any day where the aircraft involved in the operation have a noise classification of Quota Count 4 or less. A Quota Count is the degree of noise created by the aircraft both at take off and landing and is based on the certified noise levels of the aircraft.
The agreement also allows for humanitarian mercy or emergency flights by relief organisations during the night on not more than 12 occasions during any calendar year.
The agreement contains a scheme of fines for aircraft movements at night. The airport owner is required to pay a fine if an aircraft with a Quota Count in excess of QC4 undertakes a flight movement during the night. If the same plane undertakes another night-time movement in the following 12 months the amount payable will increase by a factor of two for each occasion.
I have investigated the incident you referred to and can confirm that the plane which arrived at 03:33 on 10 July 2011 was a delayed arrival of an Iceland Air plane. This plane movement is not subject to a fine under the agreement as it has a QC classification of QC4 or less.


No Night Flights home page

In Manston, no one can hear you scream...

HBM

A reader writes:


Hi All,

Am sure some of you were aware, but we weren't... the complaints phone line at Manston is no longer in service!

I was phoning an engaged tone for over an hour the other evening to complain about the landing practice that had been taking place over Ramsgate.
 
I was livid about:

  1. The time of the landings 8pm to 9:30pm ish,
  2. That I'd wasted an hour of my time calling a line that no longer operates,
  3. The tone of the security guard I spoke with on a separate line, who informed me that the number was no longer functioning.

The corporate slime that operate Manston must be brought to account!

 

charles.buchanan@manstonairport.com

charles.buchanan@manstonairport.com

No Night Flights home page

When is a schedule not a schedule?

HBM

It's worth complaining to Manston for two reasons: they have to record and report it; and they tell you exactly which plane you were complaining about. With enough information about which planes and carriers misbehave, and when, we may be able to spot if there is method to their badness. Cynical curmudgeon that I am, I can't help wondering if there's an unwritten schedule operating.

Complaining to Manston about aircraft noise usually turns out to be an unsatisfactory experience. With repetition, it becomes frustrating and then dispiriting - "stuff it, what's the point?". This infectious inertia is, of course, all just part of their Evil Plan - draining the life from you by taking ages to do the bare minimum. The standard reply doesn't answer any direct question you may have asked. You are told that everything is fine, that your complaint has been logged and the details of the flight(s) in question - date, time, aircraft, operator, and possibly some comments.

26-09-2010_01-12-04b

The logging and the details are what matters. Infratil (the airport operators) are obliged to report on the complaints they receive - they present the figures as number of complaints, and complainants, by area. It's not nice to see them gloating over low complaint figures that simply don't reflect the effect that night flights are having. Every time you get one of those frustrating replies from Manston, you've actually scored a direct hit - keep it as a trophy. Build a collection if you like.

And now we come to those precious details, and my Evil Plan...

Step 1: whenever you hear a night flight, let me know by email or by adding a comment to this article - I need the date, time, and roughly where you were (town, not street). This will give us a rolling record of activity, which we can compare with the BAP report estimate of 2 night flights a week. Ho, ho.

Step 2: use Manston's online complaints form, which will (should?) send you a confirmation of receipt with a rather oddly re-presented version of your complaint. Hang on to this: if you haven't had a reply within a fortnight (which is not unknown) you'll need to chase them.

Step 3: when the reply arrives from Manston, you can dance a jig of glee, knowing that you have scored a double hit - your complaint has been logged, and you have some flight details. Send me the flight details (by email or using the comments at the bottom of this article), and I'll match them up to the reports that came in at Step 1.

Hey presto! We will steadily build a picture of who's doing what, and when. If there's anything that resembles a timetable, Infratil will need to explain it.

Here's an added bonus: any replies to earlier complaints have suddenly become valuable. Like me, you may be kicking yourself for having binned them, cursing their uselessness, but if you do have any, please send me the flight details - the more the better. Incidentally, if anyone knows a quicker, easier way to get this information, do let me know, and save everyone some time.


No Night Flights home page

Airport Working Party, 19 May 2009

HBM

Hours' worth of minutes

Dear reader, this is how some of us frittered our lives. There's plenty to pick over here, all comments welcome. I've added paragraph numbering for ease of reference and some comments (original version on TDC's website HERE). Council Officer in charge of the AWP: Charles Hungwe.

1. Flight routes, including noise abatement routes
1.1. Over time, noise abatement routes seem to have disappeared. Evidently.There was need for transparency regarding noise abatement routes, which should be clearly defined.
1.2. “Excuses”, which were often given by Airport Operator for non-adherence to proper routes (for example, captain on a training flight had given instruction to turn left instead of right) failed to satisfy residents. Understatement.
1.3. Planes taking off in a westerly direction were expected to take off 1.5 km from end of runway, and then make a turn towards Herne Bay and Birchington, achieving altitude over the sea. That, however, did not always happen. Instead, the aircraft would fly directly over the villages. I think this should be: after take-off, 1.5km from end of runway, turn right to avoid HB & Birchington.
1.4. Routes required to be revised, in order to minimise flying over sensitive areas and maximise the proportion of landing process which occurred over the sea.
1.5. The possibility of planes turning closer to the Airport when landing, than was currently the case, should be investigated. See LINK.
1.6. Planes taking off in a westerly direction were known to turn left, instead of right.
1.7. Originally, flight routes were not over the villages.
1.8. There was need for a second radar, thereby enabling the capability to monitor whether or not aircraft were on track.
1.9. It was explained by the Director of Regeneration that the noise abatement routes prescribed in the S.106 Agreement are adhered to by Infratil. Routes prepared by the previous Airport Owner had never been formally adopted and given legal standing. TDC failed to include them in the S106.
1.10. Recognised routes for aircraft movements were generally felt to be a good thing.

 

2. Noise factors and overflying
2.1. Low flights over Ramsgate were noisy and intrusive, even during the day. Funeral ceremonies had been known to come to a standstill because of overhead noise from aircraft.
2.2. Infratil should be requested obliged to provide a list of its noise mitigation measures;
2.3. The old “747”s, which were used to carry freight, were particularly noisy; True.
2.4. Owing to a large proportion of flights being freight, Manston Airport was much noisier than other airports; True.
2.5. In some cases, take-offs did not appear to be steep enough. Consequently, overflying of area was longer than necessary; True.
2.6. The public perception at Canterbury (where noise monitoring of aircraft was non-existent) was that planes were often flying very low; True.
2.7. It could be beneficial to carry out a Survey in order to gauge opinions of residents, particularly those most affected by noise from aircraft. I honestly don't think a survey is necessary, other than to establish the scale of annoyance and anger.
2.8. The majority of noise complaints concerned overflying, particularly over the villages. Inevitably, given that they're nearest, but HB and Ramsgate cop it too.

3. Noise Monitoring
3.1. Monitoring of noise could not be effective unless planes adhered to proper routes. On occasions, take off point was out of monitoring range;
3.2. MUCH More use should be made of the mobile noise monitoring equipment that had been purchased by the Council. A headmaster of one of the schools under a flight path had welcomed the positioning of monitoring equipment on the roof of the school. I suggest hospices, rest and care homes, hospitals and schools should all have noise monitoring at some point.
3.3. Without effective monitoring, noise levels could not be understood; No. We all understand noise. Without effective monitoring, Infratil can downplay noise pollution.

4. Runway rotation
4.1. A proper discussion needed to take place on balancing number of take offs to the west (potentially, affecting the villages) and those to the east, affecting Ramsgate;
4.2. The direction of take-off was dependent on wind direction, and although the current 70/30 West to East ratio could be flexed, it rarely fell below 50/50;
4.3. If stipulated times and routes were adhered to, runway rotation would not be a big issue. Exactly.

5. Penalties, controls and enforcement
5.1. Some enforcement mechanism needed to remain in place and be applied so that those who did not keep to prescribed routes would be aware of consequential penalties;
5.2. Steeper penalties should be imposed to reflect the unacceptability of landings well outside of prescribed hours; the existing escalating fines would be sufficient IF they were actually levied.
5.3. The Airport Operator needed to provide assurance that sanctions were in place and were effective in preventing recurrences of deviations from proper flight paths; Don't want assurance; want evidence.
5.4. The community should have confidence that any criteria laid down would be adhered to;
5.5. The current system of cumulative penalties was felt to be appropriate;
5.6. Allotment of penalties to a community fund should be continued;
5.7. If stringent constraints were imposed on noise, poorly maintained aircraft would be excluded from the Airport.

6. Environmental Impact
6.1. It was necessary to draw up in detail measures that would minimise the environmental impact of the Airport and, at the same time, enable it to be operative effectively and safely;
6.2. The Council should keep abreast of EU environmental laws and also look at papers prepared by DOT (Department of Transport) regarding effects of noise disturbance at night; Too much to expect Infratil to take any responsibility for this.
6.3. The problem of CO2 emissions were exacerbated by prolonged overflying of the area.
6.4. (EU papers on air quality were passed at the meeting to the Chairman of the Working Party)

7. Night flying and shoulder periods
7.1. Night flying disturbed people’s sleep True.
7.2. The issue of night landing permits should be looked at. The Department of Transport had reported that 181 night permits had been issued since 2006 for cargo flights from outside of Europe;
7.3. If night time landing was taking place without a permit, reasons should be established; and arses kicked.
7.4. Night landings were, on occasions, caused by delays in departures of flights from Africa;
7.5. Take-off times from foreign destinations should be monitored;
7.6. Residents of Dover & Sandwich would be opposed to any relaxation of night-time flying;
7.7. In Acol, residents were generally comfortable about day-time noise, but found noise at night unacceptable;
7.8. In exceptional circumstances, non-scheduled night-time flying was permissible (for example, emergency, Government flights) I think everyone has always accepted this.
7.9. A proper framework should be put in place to prevent the “nibbling effect” whereby shoulder periods became increasingly relaxed over a period of time. We're alreday being 'nibbled' by the influx of non-scheduled night flights.

8. Aborted night-time landings
8.1. Measures to penalise aborted landings, allegedly not confined to training exercises should be set in place and fully enforced.

9. Updating of S.106 Agreement
9.1. The Director of Regeneration, Brian White said that there are no proposals to amend the S.106 Agreement. He explained that a successor document would be attached to the next significant planning approval at the Airport. The Masterplan would set the scene for subsequent development. Hang on a minute, is this what he said? I thought S106 was tied to the usage of the facility, not specific planning applications. Can anyone give me chapter and verse on this?

10. Need for greater consultation
10.1. There was a fundamental problem with training flights in that some rules (e.g. time lapse between landing and subsequent take-off) had been removed without consultation with the local community; Disgracefully.
10.2. TDC & KIACC should be notified of any procedural changes; True.
10.3. Civil Aviation Notices were inadequately publicised or informative – the community required greater detail; True.
10.4. The introduction of changes without consultation had engendered a feeling of mistrust on the part of residents. True.

11. Complaints Handling
11.1. Complaints to Infratil regarding early morning freight flights had not appeared to have been taken seriously;
11.2. Infratil should be required to respond to complaints within a certain length of time, say, 20-30 days, just like complainants, who had to make their complaint within 15 days of time of incident;
11.3. The whole of complaints system needed to be reviewed – Infratil’s current system was unreliable; "Evasive" is my word of choice.
11.4. Infratil’s website was not always accessible;
11.5. There was a measure of duplication between complaints to Infratil and those to the Council. Brian White said that complaints made directly to the Council were received by the Council’s Environmental Health service;
11.6. It seemed desirable to have a shared website between Infratil and the Council for the purpose of capturing all complaints; If EITHER of them was adequate, it would be a leap forward.
11.7. The Chairman of the Airport Working Party, Councillor Harrison said that all the airports (with the exception of Bournemouth) which had been visited by the Working Party, dealt with complaints directly.

12. Social and economic benefits of night time flying
12.1. Job benefits as outlined in the Masterplan seemed unrealistically high; True.
12.2. The geography of the area did not lend itself to a significant enhancement of jobs; True.
12.3. In itself, an increase in night time operations would not impact on job creation; True.
12.4. The Council should provide an analysis of perceived benefits of night-time flying; No. Surely this is Infratil's responsibility?
12.5. Without some night flights, the Airport might be unsustainable; No. The airport should operate more profitably within the existing S106.
12.6. The Council needed to be robust in challenging employment figures associated with night-time flying;
12.7. Increased air traffic could have “knock-on” benefits for tourism; How?
12.8. Residents would probably accept an occasional night-time flight if overall benefits of the Airport were obvious. Quantify 'occasional' and then ask them.
12.9. Emergency flights were always to be considered separately. True.

13. Support for expansion
13.1. Monkton Parish Council was supportive of the Airport and hoped for development and creation of jobs. The operation must, however, be well controlled;
13.2. Canterbury supported the airport expansion, but only in a way that did not impact harshly on the community;
13.3. The airport presently operated at a loss. It should be provided with adequate scope to function in a commercial world. The 'scope' is called the free market economy.

At this juncture, the Chairman of the Working Party drew the meeting to a conclusion, by re-iterating a statement that the Airport should be allowed to become a successful commercial venture, but not at any price.

The Chairman also stated that an opportunity would be given to the public to express their views as part of a consultation exercise, if and when an application was received by the Council in relation to night-time flying.

.:.


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